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Old 01-30-2014, 03:02 PM
  #61
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You can delete the first post on this page. I decided to quote the last post but it wouldn't work. Any way I thought others needed to see the question since it had gone to a new page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Of Hearts (View Post)
Nice art, Jaime!

I'm not sure I understand what the person meant by 'more grounded Buffy' though.

I didn't either. I looked it up and from what I read they are saying that Cordy is more emotionally grounded. I think with Buffy's depression and many other issues that I agree. We didn't see Cordy have to deal with such hard things Buffy went through as much. I'm not saying Cordy didn't go through hard times and pain but she didn't have the weight of the world literally on her shoulders. Buffy had to deal with being the leader even before Season 7 of her friends. Plus a mother to Dawn after losing her own. Angel was the leader of Cordy's group and more just one of the gang.

There still are many similarities between Buffy and Cordy in other ways. I think that is part of why they clashed a lot. Both handled things in life differently even going through some of the same things. Like how Cordy only cared mostly about being popular because she didn't want to be alone and liked the social status ect. I think deep down she was insecure and that's part of why she acted like a bitch at times. Plus she wanted to fit in and her other so called friends acted that way.

That was like Buffy was before becoming the slayer from what we know in a lot of ways. Not all though I don't know if she acted like a bitch or not.

Everything changed for Buffy when she became the slayer. I think her so called friends dropped her and made her realize they never were her friends. Then she went through So much pain with her parents fighting all the time eventually getting divorced. I do think Buffy partly blamed herself. Plus trying to figure out what being a slayer meant. The only person that could help her understand Merrick her first watcher was killed. It made her want to quit but that wasn't really possible of course.

Buffy had changed and became friends with the unpopular this time because she knew they would most likely be true friends to her. Unlike her so called friends in LA. The fact they found out she was the slayer and Buffy didn't have to hide it helped too.

It was when Cordy started having visions that she saw all pain in the world and knew she had to help them and was determined to help Angel any way she could fight evil. Cordy even told him she would be with him til the end no matter what happened. I love how Cordy evolved through the years and became a true champion in the end. I don't count Season 4 since it wasn't really her then. I hate that Season So much. I respect Joss for his amazing work but I don't know what he was thinking with that SL. Now we know it wasn't really Cordy but not when it first aired.

I hope this made sense.

I didn't mean for this post to be this long.

I probably could add more.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:26 PM
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I just think they went through a lot of things, I never thought much into it

But you made sense, Jaime I think they were similar in the way they were popular then something came to change their worlds like being a slayer or getting visions for them to change that side of themselves and care more for others.

Can I be added?
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:52 PM
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Great post, Jaime!! Agree with everything you said! And yes, it is true that Buffy blamed herself (at least partially, perhaps unconsciously) for her parents divorce.

Quote:
I didn't either. I looked it up and from what I read they are saying that Cordy is more emotionally grounded. I think with Buffy's depression and many other issues that I agree. We didn't see Cordy have to deal with such hard things Buffy went through as much. I'm not saying Cordy didn't go through hard times and pain but she didn't have the weight of the world literally on her shoulders. Buffy had to deal with being the leader even before Season 7 of her friends. Plus a mother to Dawn after losing her own. Angel was the leader of Cordy's group and more just one of the gang.
Oh, yes that does make sense! It is technically correct. Even though I still find it a little unfair, but that could be due to my being overprotective of Buffy's character. I tend to get defensive when people are too hard on her, (or just point her flaws without mentioning the context really ).

Quote:
I don't count Season 4 since it wasn't really her then. I hate that Season So much. I respect Joss for his amazing work but I don't know what he was thinking with that SL. Now we know it wasn't really Cordy but not when it first aired.
Tell me about it, that season sucks! I can't believe they trashed her character that much only to say 'it wasn't her' in the end. Oh well, we had an entire Cordelia-less season then! That makes me feel a lot happier!! Ugh.

I don't think Joss was much involved in that mess though. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't back then when he was more devoted to Firefly and left BtVS and Angel with the other producers/directors..? (Btw I remember resenting that show so much for it. Now I've made peace with the situation and even started watching Firefly. Pretty kickass show actually. )

Adding you now, flightless♥bird!
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:22 PM
  #64
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I think there are a lot of misconceptions about how involved Joss always was in his shows. Of course it's by the fans that didn't like something like the darker Season 6. It was really life that was the big bad that season though. That was just one thing that was different on the show.

One of the biggest reasons BTVS was such a success is because for the most part Joss is an amazing writer. He was also lucky to have a great writing team and of course the incredible actors. In the end Joss always had final say for everything. That's partly why some shows thrive and others don't. I could give examples of others but that would make this post longer and some may disagree. Yes Marti became a big factor in the show with her ideas.

If Joss didn't like it he would change it. He wrote the musical. That was one of the most important episodes of that season and show. We saw all the issues that would eventually come to a head at the end of the season. Well except things with the nerds.

Well most of what I know that was Joss influence is about Spuffy of course. I do know that killing Tara off was his idea and was supposed to happen Season 5 and for Willow to go evil then. I think I read that Anya was supposed to die in The Gift too. I don't know remember how though.

The Smashed ending with the crumbling walls and Spuffy bring down the building the balcony scene in DT was also his idea. He wrote the scene in HB when Spuffy talk at the wedding.

The most major rewrite I know is the BY ending when Spike tells Buffy about his soul.

Any way obviously the show wouldn't be So well written if it wasn't Joss that created and stayed with the show it's entire run. That is another thing that hurts shows when the creator leaves.

One of the reasons I blame Joss for the mess of Season ATS is because that is when he gained complete control and David Greenwalt left. No one is going to write perfectly and have the best ideas all the though.

I'm tired of typing this and it's already longer than I meant for it to be.

There is more I know about ATS that I will post about later.

Oh and since this is the Buffelia thread here is something relevant.




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Old 01-31-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
One of the reasons I blame Joss for the mess of Season ATS is because that is when he gained complete control and David Greenwalt left. No one is going to write perfectly and have the best ideas all the though.
That can't be true. The guy who wrote Hush, OMWF etc can't be the same one behind AtS S4. haha

It might not be true, but I do think that theory makes sense. He had another show running in a entirely different network, a show that he was very invested in and he went almost an entire season without directing any episodes of Buffy and Angel. It may be a wrong assumption, but it's a logical one imo. And yes, S6 was dark, some people liked it, some didn't, but Angel S4 was very bad. And it's almost an unanimity. I love Joss, but if he was truly 100% behind that, then he messed up big time.

I'm not saying that 'Joss wasn't involved' thing as a way to explain the stuff I disliked in both shows. Hell, he was completely involved in S7 and that was the worst season imo. lol Plus, if the Buffy S8, s9 etc etc comics can teach us anything is that even geniuses have their low.


Anyways, since this is the Cordy/Buffy thread, let's get back on track...

Love that gifset!! Never noticed Cordy's face during that scene when she finds out Buffy's back.
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:20 PM
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I wasn't talking really about you not liking some things. It was more the way some in the fandom see things. I was just pointing out how involved Joss was since you were saying he wasn't much the last 2 seasons. I guess that I got carried away I do that some times.

Any way I like that gifset because it shows that Buffy and Cordy do care about each other even though they didn't always get along. I think they had an understanding.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:01 PM
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It's ok, Jaime. I realize you weren't talking about me, just in general. But I do have issues with that season so I can't help it but get carried away. haha Just like you get protective of it. I guess it's a love or hate it situation.

It's actually kinda nice to know it wasn't entirely like what people told me. I know we can't always believe what we hear or read online when it comes to fandoms.

Quote:
Any way I like that gifset because it shows that Buffy and Cordy do care about each other even though they didn't always get along. I think they had an understanding.
This!!

I really liked how Buffy tried to be there for Cordelia in 'The Wish'. That scene in the alley actually parallels nicely with 'When She Was Bad'.

Cordelia: You're really campaigning for bitch-of-the-year, aren't you?

Buffy: As defending champion, you nervous?

Cordelia: I can hold my own.




On a serious note, I loved the message behind what Cordy said in that scene. Buffy needed a wake up call and since her friends were going easy on her up until then, Cordelia took charge of the situation. lol
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:01 PM
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BTVS brings out people's passion. No wonder it's still more than relevant unlike most shows that went off.

I can't believe I haven't really thought of that parallel before.

I have seen it in gifs

I will always wonder what would have happened if the vamp didn't attack in the Wish during that moment.



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Old 02-06-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
BTVS brings out people's passion. No wonder it's still more than relevant unlike most shows that went off.
Trueee!!

Buffy asking for a ride home in Helpless. I find that scene very touching for some reason, probably because of Buffy's vulnerability at the moment. Actually, come to think of it, Cordy backed her up twice on that episode. The first time was when that jerk pushed Buffy away and she fell.

Lovely gifset!!! I wish Charisma and Sarah would work together again. She could make an appearance in TCO, what do you think? <3
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:09 AM
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Love that gifset!


OMG that would be awesome if they would work together in TCO!
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:31 AM
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I really wish we'd gotten at least one Buffy/Cordy scene post-BtVS S3.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:38 PM
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Charisma in an interview a while back said she wanted to work with SMG again.

I will look for the link to it.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:25 PM
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Crossing my fingers!!

Do you guys know what Charisma has been up to these days?

Quote:
I really wish we'd gotten at least one Buffy/Cordy scene post-BtVS S3.
We did if you count AtS, but it was very quick. Too bad Cordy wasn't around during Sanctuary. Although maybe they had a point and a Cordelia/Buffy reunion on top of Faith/Buffy would've been too much to handle!
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:01 PM
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Well CC used to be on the Lying Game but that got cancelled.

She is on something but I can't remember.

I will look it up.

The orig. link to the interview wouldn't work but at least this page worked on wayback.

I didn't check other pages. The site was being slow.

Exclusive Interview: Charisma Carpenter | AfterElton.com

AE: Are there other Buffy cast members you would like to team up with again, even if just for an episode?

CC: Yeah. I loved everybody. I would love to see Sarah (Michelle Gellar) again. She’s primarily based in New York now, but I spent a lot of time with her. She’s married, she has kids now, there’s a lot of growing going on for both of us. We left a lot of stuff behind us – the shows, the hours, the characters.

I think I’d be most interested to catch up with her. She really taught me a lot. I can’t say enough about what I learned from her about getting your marks, hitting your lights, the demands of the role that she was under, the crazy hours. It was an ambitious show. I’d really like to see her again.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:28 PM
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Thank you!!

Aww, Charisma is such a sweetheart. Now I really really want to see them working together again. Damn.

You guys remember that interview during the Paley Center reunion where Charisma gets asked who she thought Cordelia had chemistry with and she says something like 'There was some unresolved tension between Sarah and I..' ? I'll see if I can find it somewhere!
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